The Waters Within

Library of Transcripts

(For purposes of clarity, brackets [ ] indicate either the author's paraphrase of scripture or editing for transcription.)

The truth as declared in the scriptures is really coming about in our lifetime – having the church of God reach a complete understanding of what salvation is, and that understanding having its effect on our lives. As I read the scriptures, and I’m speaking to you from my heart, I have quit trying to search for so many doctrinal things except that they apply to my heart, except that I might be able to see and overcome the sin that lies within my “self.” Every wind of doctrine definitely is blowing – I have heard some pretty outlandish things in the last several months and, in fact, I can’t believe people believe the things they do, but I see people not allowing the bible to interpret itself and not listening to the moving, the impressions of the heart as the Lord moves us, or tries to move us into truth.

Knowing the scriptures were inspired by the Spirit of Christ, as the Father moved on Him, allows me to say that even though many men wrote the bible, one mind was moving them – the very mind of Christ. That is why we can let the bible interpret itself. I know there are people out there who can do a much better job of it than I, but the Lord is revealing things to me on a personal level, and that is what I try to convey to you. As I study the scripture, I am longing to overcome my anger and bitterness, and so on – all of the things that make life miserable…the things that we will not have when we make it home to heaven. I want to be rid of those things now, and I’m tired of dealing with the problems of life that happen from within my own heart – the problems I create.

I want to learn to trust solely in Jesus Christ, as I know He is being led of His Father. I want to learn to look at Jesus as a brother in Christ – He is our Savior, but He is our Brother, and when I see Him, I want to feel as comfortable with Him as I possibly can. I want to have peace beginning now. I’m tired of dealing with the things, the problems I have created – I want to completely overcome, but that cannot happen if I don’t completely understand. I pray that people like you would stand with me as we search these things out… that you wouldn’t be afraid of what we’re going to find, that you deal with the things in your heart as I deal with the things in mine. The truth is setting us free and, you know, I say that it seems to be taking so long, but you know what? It wasn’t a few years ago [that] I didn’t even see light at the end of the tunnel. Now, I’m beginning to understand and I have a new and living hope – Jesus Christ. I know I am to possess the glory of Christ; I know the Father and the Son are working together to give me that understanding; I know [that] the two most loving, most powerful, most respected beings in the universe are on my side.

I don’t want to lead anyone into error, but I want to be completely up front with you and, as the Lord helps me see things differently, I want to convey that to you. If you see things differently, contact me – let’s talk about it. I’m open to the truth, but I expect you to be also. There is no other way any of us are going to reach a complete understanding without being completely open to the movings of the Spirit of Christ. The study today, I want to key on some texts in Revelation, but let me say, except we are able to make it practical, it is meaningless. The things we’re going to look at, we need to be able to see them in ourselves. Now, it helps me if I can see this outward, literal picture and then begin to apply it to the inward man, and put myself in that place. We are reaching the most glorious time in the history of humanity, but it’s also the most dangerous time because as God’s church reaches a complete understanding, there will be those [who] reject it and the deceptions will be great – and to be perfectly honest about it, if you are not following the impression of the heart, then you can very seriously be deceived. I pray for you; I ask that you would pray for me and this ministry – that we go forward in the truth; that we respect one another, deal with one another in love, and let the love of Jesus Christ rule and govern our hearts. Let’s learn what that even means and let’s glorify God.

Some time ago, I did a study on Revelation 17, concerning the “woman” and the “waters,” the “whore” and the “beast,” and I more or less did a verse by verse study of that – trying to give this an overall picture of what the Lord was bringing out there, and I can honestly tell you that probably 95% or more of what I have put in the last studies concerning this chapter, I still see it the same way, but today I see something more. The Lord is helping me see how to take the picture of this “beast” and put it inward. The “woman” – and how many times have we read the scriptures that a “woman” is a “city” is a “mindset”? The very last verse of Revelation 17 tells us the “woman” is that “great city” and, in Proverbs 25, we know that a “city” is a mindset, a spirit.

So, here I have this mindset of Babylon , of confusion. To further fine tune it, I know it is confusion concerning the things of God. Being carried by water, by a beast – “water” is understanding; “beasts” are thoughts and understanding. Recognizing this beast in Revelation 17 is also seen in Revelation 13: A mouth like a lion, or pride; feet like a bear, or an unchanging heart – that’s easy to put inside, but why the “seven heads”? And as I defined it in the past concerning each head, what does each head mean? How can I take these things and put this in my own heart?

A few days ago, maybe it’s been weeks now, but one morning when I woke up, this “beast” came into my mind and I realized for the first time that the seven heads could be multiplied times six. Now, how can I say that and what difference does that make? Remember, when we’re studying in Revelation and you see the 1260 days and 42 months – “days” are judged by light, or determined by light; “months” are determined by darkness. When the Lord is talking about 1260 days, He is talking about bringing His people to a complete understanding – it’s righteousness. But when we look at 42 months, or six times seven, we’re dealing with the wicked, the darkness. Forty-two months applies to the wicked, and years ago I realized that was the wicked being brought to a complete wickedness. But then I realized the “beast” is also water. Remember in Revelation 17, I saw a whore on water; I saw a woman on a beast – the “whore” and the “woman” equate; the “water” and the “beast” equate.

The beginning of water is its head; the beginning of a river, it’s the head of the river – and I realized I could take each “head” and look at it as a person, or a “6.” “Six times seven” is wickedness brought to completion. It’s the same thing as I look at the heads of this beast – wickedness brought to completion. So when I realized that, I had to get up and go, now, wait a minute, let’s go back – let’s look at each beast. How could the last head be worse than the first? As I took a pencil and paper and began to write out each head as the Lord had given it to me years ago, I began to see differences in each head – how each head progressively went further into apostasy, and this is the principle I want to carry through as we look at the heads of this beast now.

As we go through the seven heads, there are characteristics, at least one characteristic that the following head will grow in apostasy from the one before it. At least in one way, it will add to the apostasy and the wickedness of the beast. Let’s take a look at the seven heads, and remember this: I started counting the seven heads after man entered into sin. Looking at Adam and going back, considering now the things we have realized concerning Genesis, chapters 1, 2 and 3 – remember you’re reading parables. These are parables, and when you look at the serpent speaking to Eve, you are seeing something taking place in her own heart – something that her husband had shared with her. Adam is the one who deceived that woman with his thoughts. That is why, when she decided to partake of the tree, he was with her.

Remember what the serpent spoke to her: God does not … He knows that when you eat of this tree, you’ll be like Him – implying [that] God doesn’t want you to be like Him. But it also implies that if she partakes of it, you can make yourself like God. Now think about it: God doesn’t want you to be like Him, but you can make yourself like Him. Looking at the two cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant, two “messengers” – you cannot be a “messenger” without a message… you have to have a message. Those two messengers possess the messages of “God has always wanted me” and “He’s going to perfect me.” Now I can see them in Michael and Jesus. As God sees in His mind, in His heart, and desires humanity, He brings forth a Son as a picture of His desire. He puts His Son through the process of perfection – and any human being who wants to stand with the Son, believing and understanding as the Son believes and understands, will receive the glory of the Son.

So, for Adam to think God does not want me to be like Him – he is denying the cherubim, and for him to say or to think, if I partake of this fruit and combine God’s thought with my thought, I can be like God, he’s denying the cherubim. When you look at Jesus Christ and you look at how the man was brought to perfection, the Son can do nothing except what He sees the Father do. There is one good, and that’s the Father. If you want to be like Him, there is one man who has achieved that – Jesus Christ. He is the image of the invisible God and He will make us so – we will receive the glory of Christ if we can stand with Him, go through the changes, go through the doctrinal changes and allow Him to impress the heart with the love of God.

You know, I realize too, I’ve got to tell you this… I don’t think any of you would have trouble loving our Father. Your struggle is [with] loving me – we struggle loving one another. All of us want to love God, so what is it that gets in our way concerning one another? When I look at God, I’m humbled because I know He is the Creator, He is all powerful, all wise… all of these attributes concerning the Father. But you see, you don’t have those attributes and when I have to take it off you, or rub shoulders with you, or try to help you, you see, it’s a different story in my heart. I’m beginning to realize, we are not looking at one another with the respect that that person deserves. If you are understanding the Son of God and listening to Him, you deserve our utmost respect and love and patience – enduring with one another, that God’s love might be made manifest in our hearts toward one another… in all patience, in all longsuffering.

I don’t know of one of you that purposefully wants to deny the Savior. You want desperately to overcome, but sometimes it’s almost like you’re on a slip and slide and your feet are just spinning, trying to stay up, and you go tumbling down. Especially for me lately, that’s going to be part two of this study, if I ever get to it – recognizing the problems in my own heart… horrendous things that I see, wanting deliverance from it.

Let’s get to the “seven heads,” – let’s lay out what they are, but remember, it’s based on the fact that Adam did not think God wanted us to be like Him; also you can do it yourself. You see, I see that in these churches out here – “Can you be like God? No!” But they pick up this book and they make themselves like God without realizing what they’re doing. The whole concept in Isaiah 14 concerning Lucifer, this whole concept of “I’ll be like the Most High” – we all have gone through that saying this book is the word of God and I’ll define it for you, see? We let the book define itself as it was written by Jesus Christ.

Let’s look at the seven heads, let’s just step by step go through what they are. I have, for the first head of this beast, the people that lived before the flood – pre-flood, and to look at the apostasy, the things that I know about it, see, speaking symbolically, they would not get in the ark. The “ark” is Christ – they would not listen. They were rebellious to God, and this brings me then, to the second truth concerning these people. If you’ll look in Genesis, chapter 6, read with me in verse 4:

4 ¶ There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that … the sons of God [CF. Romans 8:14 ] came in unto the daughters of men, and they [bore] children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

This word “giant” – there were giants in the land is not “giant” – the word simply means rebellious. The number for it is [5303] and the root of it is seen in Genesis 2:21:

It’s that word “fall” – to fall, and what you’re reading in Genesis 6:4 are “fallen ones.” Romans 8 defines those who are led by the Spirit of God as the sons of God. For the sons of God, people led of the Spirit, to see the daughters of men and take them wives – to put it more simply, believers married unbelievers and rebellious people were their offspring. These rebellious people, the offspring of the sons of God and the daughters of men, became “men of renown”… men well respected. Jesus said: As in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the day of the second coming – the days of the Son of Man … when He’s going to return. I want you to look out today and tell me if you don’t see [that] the “men of renown” are rebellious people.

I could name names. I’ve actually thought about recording some of their TV shows and incorporating them in a video, so you can see and hear what I hear – and understand, I’m not making these things up. Some of the things they say are so outlandish, but they are rebellious to God and they are “men of renown.” People love these guys – thousands of people flock to the stadiums to hear them speak and, looking at the pre-flood people, the first head of the beast is something that we carry within ourselves. The wickedness within will not listen to God and will make rebellious men – men of renown… [Others] will look up to these people. There isn’t a one of us that hasn’t done that. Every one of us have looked up to and respected rebellious people – people that, today, we look back [at] and we say, how could I have ever listened to that? How could I have ever believed that? The first head of the beast is symbolized in pre-flood people.

The second head: Babel , the time of Nimrod and the building of the tower of Babel . Turn in your bibles to Genesis 11, and let’s start at verse 1:

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, … they found a plain in the land of Shinar ; and they dwelt there.

3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime … for [mortar].

4 And they said, …let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

Looking at the symbols in this, “to journey from the east” means you’re turning from self – you want to make a “name,” you see. They wanted to worship God – they were searching for God. They built a city/tower out of brick, and slime held it together. “Bricks” are man made stones and “stones” are symbols of concepts. They made their own concepts; they devised their own understanding and “slime” held it together. This word for “slime” is used in Isaiah where he tells the Lord, “You are the potter, we are the clay” (Isaiah 64:8). The “clay” – see, self… it’s red; it was red – I think the word even means red. They held their “stones” together with their own ideas, with their own concepts – their own understanding, but they were headed away from the east, wanting to make a name for themselves, and the whole idea of the “brick” and the “slime” was to build a city/tower.

The word “tower,” the root of it means to strengthen by twisting. It’s like when you take two or three cords and you wind them together to make a strong rope – it means to strengthen by twisting. The tower of a city was for strength – it fortified the city, so that is why in my bible, in my mind as I read this, I’m thinking “city/tower” … they were strengthening their “city” or their own mindset by building their “tower” to God. That makes them different than the pre-flood people – you see, they’ve added something. They are strengthening their own hearts, devising their own ideas concerning God and they’re banding together to do it – they all spoke one language, one tongue. That is what the Lord had to confuse in order to stop it – He confused their language so they all spoke a different language, and they couldn’t understand to continue building this tower to God.

So, when I look at the first head, recognizing [that] they would not listen, and men who were rebellious were men of renown to them – it’s the same thing in the second head, only they start building a city/tower, worshipping God using their own ideas, trying to be “religious.”

Remember, as we go through the heads, each head retains the characteristics of the one before, but will add to it. OK, let’s look at the third head of the beast: We come to Egypt . You’ve got “pre-flood,” “the time of the building of Babel , the tower of Babel ,” and you have “ Egypt .” What is it about Egypt , because [in] Egypt , too, men of renown, the rebellious people, were renowned in Egypt . They were not listening to God and they, too, wanted to build a city/tower or strengthen their minds in [the] worshipping of their gods. What is it, though, that Egypt seems to add to this? For one thing, Pharaoh was considered to be their god. Now, I have read in the past when you go back to Babel , that Nimrod was the first one on earth to claim to be God; everyone else always said, Well, we speak for God – but Nimrod claimed to be God. I don’t see that in the scripture – I’m not saying it isn’t there. What I do see in the scripture is the worship that Pharaoh demanded, that he wanted to be listened to, and I know that history goes back and shows us that they looked at the Pharaoh as a god.

But Egypt also persecuted the children of Israel . He began to persecute them and put them in bondage. That’s something else that is in this makeup of the beast as we look at the wickedness in our own hearts – to persecute the children of Israel . Now remember, spiritually speaking, “ Israel ” are those who have wrestled with the angel and have entered into the abiding truth – that is Israel . So adding to our apostasy, we see this outward manifestation of God and we see a persecution of the children of Israel .

Fourth head: Babylon – the time of Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon . What does Babylon add to the equation? Not only did Babylon persecute the people of God, they reached out to persecute – they went to destroy the city, knock down the walls and persecute the children of Israel . Nebuchadnezzar was worshipped, but he also adds to the apostasy by making an image to be worshipped and to be bowed down to – and we’ll see that in the following heads. Not only do these people [who] fall into these heads persecute, they reach out to do it. You see, that was something Pharaoh didn’t have to do – they were already there in his land. But Nebuchadnezzar traveled to do it – he reached out to persecute the people of God and caused them, wanted to make them bow to his image.

The next head of the beast: Rome – the time of Rome , at the time of Christ. It’s obvious that it was at this time [that] Christ literally was put to death... That is something the other heads did not do. The time of Rome slew the Savior, completely rejecting Him, and united with the state. So, as I look back at the other heads, I see all of those things fulfilled in Rome . Caesar claimed to be God; his image was on the coin and they worshipped the money. All of the things beforehand point to Rome also: Persecuting the people of God, reaching out to do it.

The next head – the next head that was to come up is Catholicism. Now, consider with me concerning Catholicism because you’ll see all of the attributes of the heads before: Their god is the pope; they most definitely have images to worship; they have reached out to persecute and slay the people of God; they have their city/tower all put together with brick and held together by slime. As we look at all of those symbols, we see how Catholicism fulfills every bit of that.

The next head is the seventh – the seventh head is the most subtle deception of all: Apostate Protestantism. Now remember, we are talking about the seventh head, or wickedness completed. It’s the most subtle deception because the wickedness of apostate Protestantism is inward and they can’t see it. You see, previous “gods” before this were outward pictures – from Pharaoh to Caesar, you see… the pope. But not so with apostate Protestantism – their “god” is themselves. This is what the book of Revelation is about – to try to help us see the perfection, or the completion of wickedness.

In Revelation 13, they demand that you worship the image of their beast – it’s not an outward thing, it’s inward. Everything they do is inward… everything they do – the wickedness that the Lord is manifesting, is spiritual. He’s trying to help you see the spiritual picture and I want you to consider with me that when the people of God reach a complete righteousness, a complete understanding of righteousness and what is good, the seven headed beast will be “crowned”… ten crowns for ten kings that go on the last head – apostate Protestantism. “Ten” is a number signifying what God understands; a “horn” is a source of light. Ten horns – this is what God would have you understand… it goes on apostate Protestantism. These are the men who will tell you they have the knowledge of God – why? Well, they have the bible… that this is the word of God, and you must define it as they define it.

Catholicism added one thing that the other ones didn’t have… Catholicism said: We are the only way to heaven. Apostate Protestantism – each denominational group will say the same thing: This is what you must believe in order to go to heaven. But like I say, it’s the perfection of wickedness and it is very subtle, and it is something… consider this, it is something that each one of us have come out of – wickedness complete, and in order to move us in the direction of Christ, the Lord is having to teach us spiritual truth, giving us a spiritual understanding.

Doctrinally, we need to be straightened out and separate from the beast… Once we do [this], there is a beast within – there is iniquity within… there is distortion within that needs to be corrected [so] that we might be healed emotionally, and be saved.

Let’s go back, now, again I want to read these verses in Revelation 17:1 and 3, concerning the woman and the water, the whore and the beast, and then move on through this chapter and let me show you something that we can really put this inward, in our own hearts – Revelation 17, verse 1:

1 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, [he said], Come [here]; I will [show] unto [you] the judgment of the… whore that [sits] upon many waters: [Now, verse 3:]

3 … he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Now, it’s obvious the whore on the water is the woman on the beast, so looking at verse 12:

12 And the ten horns which [you saw] are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet [Remember the “ kingdom of God ” is the understanding of God. “Kingdom” is understanding… they have not received any understanding yet at the time John is writing this…]; but [they will] receive [authority] as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one [purpose {1106}], and [will] give their [ability {1411}] and [authority {1849} to] the beast. [All the deceptions within that we’ve been talking about.]

14 ¶ [They’ll] make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb [will] overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which [you saw], where the whore [is sitting], are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

15 ... The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Verse 1… the judgment of the whore upon water. Verse 3: … The woman on the beast. Verse 15: …the waters are peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues. Hence, the “beast” is peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues. If the waters are, so is the beast, and this is what carries the woman… and those are four things within each one of us – peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues. How can that be? Recently in studying the scriptures, the Lord has begun to give me a different understanding of “demons” and I’m not going to go into the explanation of demons, but I want to tell you one thing. If you go to the Old Testament and you see this “familiar spirit” (look the word up), the root of it is “father.” The root of “familiar spirit” is father. Now every Hebrew word is rooted in a verb. “Father” is not a verb – the root of “father” means to possess, to found, to teach, the builder, the beginner, the creator… hence, “father” is the one who possesses; he is the one who “builded, founded, created,” you see. We all have our father, but familiar spirit is rooted in father – it stems off of that. It is the thing you are possessed with – in fact, I think one place in Job it’s even translated “bottle” because, see, a bottle was possessed… it was full, it was filled.

Now, think about it – throughout my life, especially after having children and getting onto my children, trying to bring my children in line, there were times when I would get onto them, I would see my step-father in my mind. And I would notice I was saying things the way he said it to me and, as someone pointed out to me, that is a “familiar spirit.” That is how I was taught – that was my teacher. That, in essence, was my “father” in various phases of my life. Just consider how you think and look at the “peoples” that are in your heart. Look at the people that have “possessed” you, that you portray in your life, and you come to Revelation and the Lord says, Well, there is this beast with seven heads. There is confusion about God being carried by pride and an unchanging heart, and this “waters” are the peoples in your heart – the multitudes, I would say, or multitudes of thought… multitudes of twisted ideas.

Peoples, multitudes, nations – the root word for “nation” is the exact same root for the word “pride” because it means a building up; a gathering together; making big, magnifying. What is in your heart? Peoples, multitudes, nations – and what about “tongues”? If you don’t speak like a Baptist, if you don’t speak like a Mormon, or if you don’t speak like a Catholic, they cannot convince you of their doctrine. They have to take the bible and define these words a certain way in order to make you believe what they’re saying. When they talk about God, they have to define this “angry” god: You’re the sinner; He needs to be appeased; you’re not fit to enter heaven… in fact, God can’t even look at sin – He can’t even look at you. You’ve got to have someone come between you and God.

See, all of these words have to be defined and you have to speak their “tongue” in order to build a city/tower of brick held together by slime, and for the past several years the Lord has been re-defining for me the meanings of these words: Grace, salvation, Son of God, Father, Satan, demons. See, what do these things mean? It doesn’t mean what we’ve been taught all of our lives. Let me tell you something: Rome is going to come into Jerusalem and there won’t be left one stone upon another. What does that mean to you? See, three “sanctuaries”: This one in the wilderness, this one made and built by Solomon and this one that Jesus came to… the third one – complete. Solomon built this huge, beautiful temple, but it is a picture of the time set of Laodicea [the time we spend in that mindset]: Rich and increased with goods and in need of nothing – and Babylon will come in there and wreak havoc, tear it down.

It’s the third temple built – from Ezra, Nehemiah, so on… when Zerubbabel is coming out of Babylon – it’s the third temple that they looked at and they said: Well, the glory of this is not near what Solomon’s is – and the Lord said but the glory of it is going to be greater (Haggai 2:1-9). The Desire of Ages will come to this one – Christ Himself literally came to the third temple. This is the temple that rejected Christ, and Rome left not one stone upon another – a picture of Roman doctrine coming into your sanctuary and tearing down all truth. Why am I saying that? Because everything we have believed in the past is wrong and you have to quit speaking their tongue in order to make the change.

Jesus said in Matthew 24: The gospel of the kingdom is going to be preached – the good news of God’s understanding. When you realize what’s been making you desolate, flee to the mountains or the kingdoms, or the understanding of Israel . Don’t go down and take anything back out of your house. Why? It’s wrong – we’ve been in error. We need to continue defining the words written in this book as God gives us definition, and come to some conclusions of what these things mean so we can be completely delivered of this beast within. We need to quit speaking their language – overcome the familiar spirits; the multitudes of iniquitous thoughts that we carry and the nations of pride within our hearts. These things need to be dealt with individually – you’ve got your “stuff” and I’ve got mine, but you can certainly encourage me as the Lord helps you overcome, and I pray to encourage you. I pray to pass along to you the definitions the Lord is giving me. I believe I’m part of the last day church – this remnant church… I believe the Lord is soon to come. I believe as He straightens out my thinking, it isn’t going to take long for the righteousness of God to manifest itself in my life.

Now, I want to go into part two of this study because, quite honestly, this was the understanding that gave me hope. Recognizing this beast, it’s been a few weeks that I was seeing the beast with the seven heads and the ten horns and so on, going through, defining that stuff and the next day, as I went before the Lord with all of it I was feeling less than, to say the least, because I keep seeing this anger and resentment and bitterness in my own heart and it manifests itself toward my family. And there are times I will walk off, wondering, you know, what is happening here? Why would I want to bring unrest into my home? Why would I want this kind of atmosphere for my wife and my children? … Because I don’t want that. And I was beginning to be discouraged, and I thought, you know, if what I’m believing is true – I know thoughts produce feelings, feelings move to action. Why is this happening? If I’m accurate about God and so on… and it’s been some time ago [that] the Lord showed me the cause of my anger, but what is happening? Why does this keep raising its head – its ugly head and manifesting itself? How can this stop? It doesn’t seem to be working for me. And I think about other people that are hearing these truths…what can you tell them when they begin to manifest an ugliness, because you see, years ago Scott Stanley hid behind the bible. I was a nice guy because I was supposed to be a nice guy; I was patient because there were verses telling me I had to be. I wouldn’t get angry, because there were verses telling me not to do that. And I tried as best I could to live according to my interpretation of the book.

And in 1995, when I began abiding in Christ, listening to the voice, and the Lord began to show me the meaning of the book as He wrote on my heart His law, His instruction… He began to pull me out from behind this thing, to show me who I really am. Why would He do that? Because you can never defeat an enemy you can’t see. All of the roots that lie within our soul need to be rooted out. You can chop down the tree but the root is still there, and it’s the root that needs to be taken care of. Only God is strong enough to rid us of sin from root to fruit – He is the only one who can do it. You’ll never do it yourself –you might stop manifesting the problem, but you’re still carrying it within your own heart. And when we literally go to heaven, it’s going to be rooted out of us.

Now, consider people in the past who have died in Christ. Let me take Martin Luther – for some reason that man comes to my mind – Martin Luther. I know that Martin Luther did not understand the things we are understanding today, but I believe he will be in the first resurrection – he will come out of that grave and stand before the Savior “saved.” What happens to him when He does that? What exactly will happen to the people who are dead in Christ? We know they’re going to come out of the grave; they’re going to ascend to heaven. We know there’s going to be a marriage supper, where they are going to be instructed in the righteousness of God. Because now I understand salvation is happening in my heart, it’s happening in between my ears – they will have to be saved between their ears. Now, they will have a glorified body, but their mind will be brought into harmony with the body – the outward will reflect the inward.

So what does that mean? Well, those who are dead in Christ, after they ascend to heaven, will have to learn doctrinal truth concerning God. There are people, I believe, who were Trinitarians, died in that falsehood, but will be raised, that will be taught Jesus truly is the Son of God. There will Sabbath keepers; Sunday keepers … all of the doctrinal things the Lord has helped bring us through, there will be somebody who died in Christ believing that falsehood, but were honest in heart, and God will raise them. They’ve got to be taught doctrinal truth so that God can heal them emotionally – they need to see the truth of God’s love and be healed emotionally.

Now why am I saying this? Because in Revelation 20, where you see the angel with the key to the abyss in one hand, the chain in the other, and he’s able to bind Satan for a thousand years – that is the 144,000. And if we wanted to, we could go back and look up these words and you could see [that] “thousand” means to be in harmony with,” “years” means to repeat. And when you have an understanding of the abyss and the great chain from the Father to the Son to me…when I can hold those two things – I’m able to recognize the adversary. Why? Well, Jesus will change your tongue – you’ll speak a new language and “Satan” will mean something different to you, and you’ll be able to bind him and walk in harmony with God until the word of God is made complete in your heart.

Then will come the first resurrection, after you have walked in harmony with God repeatedly, or the symbol of it is after the one thousand years. What happens during that “one thousand years”? Well, let’s look at the way we literally looked at it: When the dead in Christ are raised, Satan is set loose again, because Satan is in the heart – and you are dealing with yours now, but Martin Luther will have to deal with his then, when he’s raised up. God calls this the destruction of those “nations” (now remember what a “nation” is) – the “nations” that will come against the understanding of God or “ Jerusalem above.” He calls those nations Gog and Magog – “Magog” means the land of Gog . Now, consider with me: Coming out of the grave, learning the truth about God and dealing with the iniquity of the heart (being healed emotionally) and all the nations that come against that “city”… when that happens, the fire of God will come from heaven and consume Gog and Magog.

Consider it happening to Martin Luther – consider for the first time him understanding the truth about the trinity. I don’t know what the man believed exactly, but let’s look at all the doctrinal changes he’s going to have to make and the questions he’s going to have, and when he gets through that – understanding what has made him angry all of his life… the same things we go through, and the nations that come up against that understanding – God will declare the truth and consume it out of him. Think about this happening because, you see, everything that these people literally are going to go through, the 144,000 will spiritually go through it first.

I came to a place where I learned to listen to God and I came out of the death of that grave I had been in – I began to abide in Jesus Christ and I was born again in 1995. I was converted in 1979… I was born again in 1995 – big difference. It took years for the Lord to bring me to the understanding of His love for me and to speak His love to me, that I might ascend out of the lie that I had received from the womb and every day of my life – God has always loved me – and bring me to a place where He perfects me according to my conscience… I know I’m not condemned. I know I’m His child. He isn’t imputing sin to me – He is simply trying to help me overcome. This is exactly the way I need to look at you – not impute your sin to you, but recognize somebody that is falling, slipping, but who needs help to overcome. That’s the way the Lord is looking at us – that’s the way He looks at me – that’s the way I need to look at you, and allow my Gog and Magog to be dealt with now, you see.

When Martin Luther comes out of the grave, “Satan” is let loose again. When I came out of the grave, “Satan” was let loose again. When I ascended up to the understanding of God’s love, just like when Martin Luther ascends up, Gog and Magog need to be dealt with – well, so do mine. But I cannot defeat an enemy I can’t see, and by the mercy and grace and love of God, I have people in my life that help me see my anger and my bitterness, my envy, my jealousy – all of these things. Count it all joy when you fall into these different temptations, knowing this, the trying of your faith works patience, and let patience have its perfect work, that you might be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. That’s addressed to the twelve tribes scattered abroad – spiritually, the 144,000. If you have begun listening to God, if you know the love of God, He is going to bring out the worst in you so that He might speak His fire from heaven and consume out of you the root of your bitterness, and wickedness and evil. It has to be done.

Gog and Magog need to be destroyed in the 144,000 now. This caused me to go back to Ezekiel 38 and 39 – speaking the language of the denominations, I would interpret “Gog and Magog” and all of these countries literally… Germany , Russia , all of these countries coming against Israel , see, and the Middle East . That isn’t what he’s talking about at all. He is talking about the iniquity of your heart – standing against the truth He is giving you in Jesus and how He is going to blot it out. Let me put some of these words on the screen for you – look at Ezekiel 38:1:

2 Son of man, set [your] face against Gog, the land of Magog , [it’s] the chief prince of Meshech [4902] and Tubal [8422], and prophesy against him,

What does he mean “the chief prince”? Remember, Baal was the prince of demons – Gog and Magog is the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. Meshech is [4902]; Tubal is [8422] in the Strong’s. “Meshech” means extended or prolonged; “Tubal” means to return – a perfect expression of the sin that God exposes in us when He takes us from hiding behind the book to show us truly the root of who we are. And look at these other “nations” – let me just read some of them to you, in verse 5:

“ Persia ” means unbridled and lawless; “ Libya ” means to despise and condemn. “Gomer” means complete or perfect; “Togarmah” means strife and contention – and I want you to notice in verse 8:

8 After many days [you’ll] be visited: in the latter years [you’ll] come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, [you’ll come] against the mountains [or the understanding] of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and [they’ll] dwell safely all of them.

Isn’t it interesting that the strife and contention, the unbridled lawlessness – all of these things will come against the understanding of Israel … that has always laid waste? You see, what does that mean? You and I are dwelling in a “land” we have never been in before and it’s always been barren, but the Lord has brought us into it, and all of the nations are coming against it – and it’s time to let God wipe it out.

I’m not going to take the time to read Ezekiel 38 and 39 to you – this is something you need to do, but let me tell you this: When I read this, I had such hope that my anger and all of the wrath I manifested, that God was going to set me free from it – and for the first time in my life, I read Ezekiel 38 and 39 and saw the light of God in it, and rejoiced that He is going to set me free.

There is something I want to read to you in Zechariah, chapter 12 – I want to start reading at verse 9:

9 ¶ And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem .

“All the nations that come against Jerusalem ” is the same as saying Gog and Magog. We’re looking at this time of atonement, the covering, where the Lord is covering our thoughts with the truth possessed in the heart of Jesus Christ. You see, in the studies “Life and Blood,” we saw the sprinkling of the blood, bringing the breath of the bullock, the breath of the goat into the sanctuary, learning not my will but thine be done – I’m going to go to the cross and recognizing: Forgive them for they know not what they do – and learning to apply those principles… learning to love one another, for the Lord says: “in this day I’m going to seek to destroy all the nations that are coming against this land of peace… the habitation of peace.” Zechariah, verse 10 in Zechariah 12:

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem , the spirit of grace and [supplication]: [they’ll] look upon me whom they have pierced, and [they’ll] mourn for him, as one [mourns] for [the Only One], [they’ll] be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [the] firstborn.

11 [And] In that day [there’ll] be a great mourning in Jerusalem , as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon .

That is 2 Kings 23:29 – what happened there? Now, listen closely… the king of Israel was slain by Pharaoh. Think about it: You’re going to mourn for someone who mourns for the Only One – for the firstborn… it’s going to be as he described in 2 Kings when the king of Israel was slain by Pharaoh. Now, back to Zechariah:

12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

Looking at David, Nathan and Levi – you see, David was a king; Nathan a prophet; Levi a priest. Looking at these levels of understanding, what does it mean to “mourn apart from the wife”? Now, let me tell you something that, even if this isn’t what he means, this is something we’re going to do: A “wife” is a symbol of the truths God gives us to help us in our “garden.” Ultimately, you’re birthed in this mindset of New Jerusalem and you come back and marry the mother – things we’ve looked at in past studies. You will cleave to that mindset, but he says you’re going to mourn apart from your wife. You’re going to mourn apart from what God has given you for comfort – even though you have these comforting thoughts, you’re going to see yourself as it is. You’re going to see the depth of your soul and you are going to be apart from … even though God has given you these wonderful truths, these wonderful thoughts to comfort you, you’re going to mourn apart from that. You have got to see who you are, even though God loves you; even though He’s always loved you; even though He isn’t condemning you.

Let me just lay these things out that comfort me and realize I still need to see myself apart from what comforts me and mourn as one mourns for the Only One, as one mourns for the Firstborn. You see, I have a “firstborn” in my life – there is a child that was my firstborn and I love that child, and it’s because of my love for that child, I can recognize God’s love for His Child and apply that to my heart… how He loved His Son, and know it hurt Him to allow His Son to go through what He did for me – but recognizing that love He has for His Son, He has for me if He was willing to do this with His firstborn, I mourn as for my firstborn. I recognize that is the same feeling of hurt that my heavenly Father is willing to endure to say to me: I love you this much. And I’ve got to come to that place apart from all of the beautiful things He’s teaching me, and recognize the wickedness in my own heart. Let’s go back to Zechariah 13:1:

1 ¶ In that day there [will] be a fountain [see, a fountain where water is coming out… a fountain] opened to the house of David and [those who inhabit] Jerusalem [it’s a fountain] for sin and … uncleanness.

2 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names [the characters] of the idols out of the land, [they’ll] no more be remembered: [I’ll] also cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.

Now I think for some of you, when you read the following verses in Zechariah, I think Zechariah has some of the most difficult scripture to understand, but what he is saying is: When you recognize the falsehood you’ve been carrying, you will put these things to death and you will learn to worship Him whom you have pierced – he says pierced in the house of my friends. Now that word “friend” is lovers, you see. That’s a different level of understanding – to be a lover of Christ and know that you pierced Him. Those who love me, He says, have pierced me. Listen, the whole world has pierced Him, but in Zechariah 13, He is on a different level of understanding, talking to a different group of people – you’ve moved beyond the “manna” and the “bread.” It’s time for the bread that’s only for Aaron and his sons.

This book, if it isn’t changing your heart with the Spirit of Christ giving you interpretation, it’s good for nothing. All of these things we talk about, if it isn’t changing our hearts, it’s good for nothing. If we can’t put it inward and overcome the sin and iniquity we’ve carried all of our lives, it’s good for nothing. I pray that you would read this in prayer, in tears, that God would reveal to you the meanings of these verses and of His love, and give you hope of overcoming and ruling these nations with a rod of iron – not allowing your anger and bitterness and all of these things to keep coming back, governing you, influencing people around you, destroying lives. It’s time to let it go. Come to the marriage supper where the Lord can destroy Gog and Magog, and set you free from the “peoples, multitudes, nations and tongues.”

We’re getting close to the end. I pray that you grow in courage… have hope, because Jesus is setting us free.